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“through faith in his blood”
Couldn’t that be understood as: our faith in the
work of the cross…?and
“the righteousness of God which is by faith of
Jesus Christ” Couldn’t this be understood as:
which is by our faith of Jesus Christ” ?We are made righteous only after we believe….
We are made righteous in the eyes of God…
We are made righteous spiritually…
We can still sin in our life here…
We are forgiven for that if we do,
because we believe….
We study to learn more about God/Christ/Holy Spirit…
We learn good conduct…
Sin will not be dominant over us….but
it can happen….because we still have
the nature to sin…..Pam – ‘faith that dwells in Jesus”
What is that faith?
I’m thinking, it can’t be faith in God
He is God……It can’t be faith in God’s plan
He made the plan….So, I think the faith of Christ
is the Christian faith….After a person believes
he is justified, sanctified,
and made righteous…..2Ti 3:13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
—————————————————————————–
2Ti 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Pam says the ‘faith that dwells in Jesus”
I’m thinking it might be this way:
it’s the faith that dwells in Timothy after studying
the scriptures….
Timothy studies the scriptures
since he was a child
became wise….unto salvation…
wise through faith which is
believing in Christ Jesus….
Faith dwelling in Timothy…?
faith of Christ
Matthew 26:42
He went away again the second time,
and prayed saying. O my Father, if this
cup may not pass away from me,
except I drink it, thy will be done.Faith in God and God’s plan…..
?Pam wrote: Jesus had faith in his own blood.
Me: He had faith in what his blood would do/did…
The plan was he, as sinless, would be our saviour having died
to pay for our sins thus redeeming us…freeing us from the law…
the penalty for sin is death….
We believers now are able to be seen as good enough,
in God’s eyes, for heaven…
Spiritually, we are good….we believe in Christ
and what he did….the basis for the Christian Faith…
When we go home, we will clean heaven from sin by
judging angels…
On earth sin must be done away with by Christ reining
for 1000 yrs….At the end of all that, sin will be done
away with in heaven and on earth….
I think this was done like this, because we always had
the freedom of choice. We were not created as robots.
After we believe we are still being helped by the
Holy Spirit….helping our thinking.
The best thing is we know love.I know, Pam….I know….same here….lol
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justifiedthe faith of Christ
Belief in God’s Plan….What is God’s Plan…That Christ die for our sins,
was buried, and rose again…That is the Grace Gospel..That is the
Christian faith…..?????
the faith of Christ
Salvation is a huge part of the Christian Faith
Are you thinking of faithfulness instead of faith?
Christ was faithful to die on the cross,
but the faith of Christ is that which was
accomplished….
I will need to study Psalms 16 more to
understand what you mean……I’m getting cross-eyed going up and down, up and down.
What makes it worse is I lost my side scroll thingy on
my computer a couple weeks ago…
How ’bout this:
the faith of Christ
Christ had faith in God’s Word and the work of the cross
We have faith in God’s Word and the work of the cross
hmmmm…… 🙂
Could the faith of Christ be the Christian Faith
My faith is the Christian Faith
I don’t know….does that sound wrong?November 15, 2017 at 8:29 pm #41761EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
TRACE….LOLOkay…When we die it is our body that dies…but our soul and spirit are still alive. It is the same…When Jesus died on the cross…His flesh died, but His soul and Spirit were still alive.
November 15, 2017 at 8:34 pm #41762EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
OH…you three are the musketeers today! LOL
====================================================================================November 16, 2017 at 8:31 am #41767EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
All for one and one for all! LOLThat makes perfect sense. But I would think we would have to factor in 2 Cor 5:21 “…to be sin for us…” Just a thought
November 16, 2017 at 11:04 am #41769EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
And here are the verses with the phrase
faith of Christ:Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;) (Note: faith of the gospel)
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
———————————————————————————-November 16, 2017 at 12:46 pm #41771EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Amen TNT… But what is being made of these verses is that WE are SAVED by the faith of Christ…and this is heresy.We are only saved by the blood of Christ….His death, burial and resurrection.
Do you all understand this or are there questions? Remember at one time I was going to write on the faith of Christ because I saw it the same way as those teaching heresy. Thank God with further study of Paul’s epistles…using comparing Scripture with Scripture I saw the error of this teaching.
Anybody see it differently?
=====================================================================================November 16, 2017 at 1:11 pm #41772EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Although, I think I read somewhere that the faith of Christ meant
the faith Christ had in God’s plan….. if you look at these
verses and the chapters surrounding these verses they seem to
mean faith in Christ (faith of Christ)….. In Phil 1:27 it mentions the faith
of the gospel….That is not the way we would say it today…
We would say faith in the gospel…… Is that right, Mari?
——————————————————————————November 16, 2017 at 1:15 pm #41773EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
I agree that we are NOT saved by the faith of Christ, but it sounds like we are made righteous by His faith. Huh?
================================================================================November 16, 2017 at 1:19 pm #41774EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Mari, I can’t get to your outline because I do not have a facebook account. Sorry.
———————————————————————————-November 16, 2017 at 1:26 pm #41775EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Pam we if changed the “of” to “in”…..it would all seem to fit…..
————————————————————————————–November 16, 2017 at 1:27 pm #41776EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Hi TNT! I’m glad I’m not the only having trouble understanding these verses.:) I still like Romans 5:19 “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” I think that goes along with what you said about faith in God’s plan. Definitely interesting.
————————————————————————————-November 16, 2017 at 1:31 pm #41777EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
If we changed the of to in, that would be changing the King James Version. I read somewhere that the more recent translations use this. I don’t think that would be a very good idea.
———————————————————————————–November 16, 2017 at 1:41 pm #41778EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
I see what you mean…..I wonder how much coffee it will take to
get all the cobwebs out of my brain…..lol
By Adam we were all given the nature to sin…
By Christ’s obedience of dying on the cross for our sins, his death, and resurrection
we were given the opportunity to believe that and by believing that
we will be made righteous in God’s eyes….
===============================================================================November 16, 2017 at 1:44 pm #41779EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Oh no…..I would never change the KJV…..never….didn’t mean
it that way……
I meant it in the way we talk today….
=================================================================================November 16, 2017 at 1:48 pm #41780EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
TNT, that is very good! I think you have had just the right amount of coffee! It still comes down to the faith of Christ. I heard someone once say the faithfulness of Christ. Does that change the meaning?
———————————————————————————November 16, 2017 at 2:02 pm #41781EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Yeah, that would change the meaning…..In Phil 1:27
it uses the phrase faith of the gospel
we wouldn’t say the gospel’s faith
we would say faith in the gospel
now for the faith of Christ
we don’t say Christ’s faith
we say faith in Christ
see what I mean…..
=================================================================================November 16, 2017 at 2:06 pm #41782EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Well, now I need some coffee. I will study this some more and get back to you tomorrow, Lord willing.:)
—————————————————————————–November 16, 2017 at 9:21 pm #41784EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Now if it literally meant the faith of Christ….then after that
phrase somewhere it should describe the faith of Christ….
look for that and let me know if you find something…..okay….
=============================================================================November 16, 2017 at 9:52 pm #41785EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Yeah…we do not want to change words! Here…try this and see if it helps…and I will post another tomorrow…another great…easy…article. But…this is just great…Pam…this one you will be able to open! ?
http://d1.graceambassadors.com/audio/Philippians09.pdf
This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Mari – Administrator Mari – Administrator.
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November 16, 2017 at 9:56 pm #41787EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
I will be with one of our sisters…Paula MT tomorrow in Jackson…18 miles away… She had to take her husband to care today. He has Dementia and some other things and it was becoming very hard to care for him 24/7.She is beside herself. Pray I can help comfort her…. It is a totally heartbreaking situation.
November 16, 2017 at 11:31 pm #41788EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
I still don’t understand it…..but I’ll keep trying….
————————————————————————————-November 17, 2017 at 1:03 am #41789EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Okay….here is a short article that may help…Okay…next is an audio and it tells the whole story and explains the truth well and tells what the heresy is all about, too. It also has a download button…where you can print off the points to keep track better as Justin is speaking…if you like that. I love that feature. Hope you will take the time…because then you will understand this. I am going to listen again too…I heard it at the conference last year. ?
Love you all!
==================================================================================November 18, 2017 at 12:19 pm #41801EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
By the way, Sharleen….You may want to read these
daily devotionals as they contain information about
attending churches that aren’t right division….Evil Communications #1 through #7
https://swordsofgrace.com/forum/bible-studies/333-words-of-grace/
————————————————————————————-November 18, 2017 at 2:38 pm #41802EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
This is an article I found in Justin’s weekly e-mail today. I found it fascinating and thought-provoking. Would anyone like to share their thoughts, please?“What Is Legalism?”
Legalism is a plague on the body of Christ.
It would be easier to remove if there was not so much confusion about what it is.
Anymore, if someone is telling you to do good works, they’re a legalist.
If someone is disciplined, wakes up to an alarm clock, dresses modestly, or has a practice of abstaining from anything (especially sin), they’re a legalist.
If your mom tells you to clean your room and wash behind your ears: mom is a legalist.
Whoever says, “thou shalt not” and “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” is a legalist.Sometimes, the unbending nature of truth is confused with the law’s binding of the flesh, and truth is condemned with legalism.
Legalism is not narrow mindedness, correction, rebuke, or strict adherence to the truth of God. Running from these things will lead you to a worse place than legalism.
Legalism is when the motivation and means of Christian living is from the law.
Legalism speaks to how people live for the Lord. Legalists use the law as their means. How do you live? According to the law righteousness comes through doing the law (Deu 6:25; Matt 5:17-19).
Legalism teaches that sinful behavior or wrong belief can be made right by imposing laws.
The law fails at producing what it desires, because it can only force people to obey with fear from the outside.
The wrong way to oppose legalism would be to merely reduce the number of laws. Some of the most dangerous legalists will say only two laws are required (Mark 10:29-31).
Whether it is hundreds of laws or just two, the person is still under the dominion of the law and not operating under grace.
Grace teaches us that we are not under the law (Rom 6:14).
Those who live by grace understand that “now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested” (Rom 3:21).
The solution to legalism is not merely reducing the number of laws it is righteousness without the law: an altogether different means by grace through faith.
A lack of laws was never the problem. This means the law can never be the means for us to live for the Lord. The problem is internal. Sin is the problem.
God’s grace pays for sin. Grace kills sin.
Legalism binds the flesh with the law, but grace nails the flesh to the cross with the Lord (Rom 6:3-4; Gal 6:14).
Grace succeeds where the law fails, because it operates through faith from the inner man. The truth of God’s grace must start from the inside out.
The common fear among legalists is that removing the law will produce more sin, but the opposite is true.
Grace does not allow sin, give permission to sin, or makes us free to sin. Grace teaches us to live godly, walk in newness of life, and to live righteously (Titus 2:13).
Grace and the law both try to produce the same thing: good behavior and good works (Eph 2:10; Titus 2:14). The difference is not always a difference in the action or the outcome; the difference exists in the means and motivation for doing the good.
Forcing someone to do something against their will as does the law, does not change their inner man.
Grace produces what the law could not (Rom 8:3-4). The law requires the flesh to perform. The grace of God gives the soul something to believe.
Grace ordains men unto good works (Eph 2:10). Through faith hearts can purpose to do good works willingly.
Grace changes the motivation of the inner man from fear and force to faith, hope, and charity. Faith, hope, and charity are reaped by sowing grace truth to the inner man.
This is why grace requires a narrow mind (a sound mind) and strict adherence to truth to maintain. Truth works in your mind and your inner man.
Truth must be affirmed and upheld (1 Tim 3:15). The truth of God’s grace cannot be mixed with the weakness of the law. We are told to hold fast, and we do so by a strength of faith not the legalistic chain of the law.
Conviction, correction, narrow mindedness toward the truth, and avoiding error is not legalism if it is motivated by grace. It can be the product of willing hearts by faith doing the will of God, letting God be true, and “teaching no other doctrine” (1 Tim 1:3).
Legalism does not require a strict adherence to what you believe, only how you behave. Legalism cannot control your mind, but always controls your flesh.
Legalism uses the law and starts to work on the outer man. Grace uses the cross of Christ and begins the work on the inner man.
Don’t throw out the truth while trying to remove legalism in the church. One is a blessing, the other is a curse.
=======================================================================================November 19, 2017 at 3:10 pm #41811EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Sharleen Australia
Sharleen AustraliaParticipant
Trace- great article – well worth printing out.Mari – how is Paula? I would imagine it is a huge thing having to hand over care of the one you love. And changing from a relationship to a carer.
I will listen to that sermon today while cleaning out all my kitchen cupboards. It really isn’t a topic I have thought of but obviously important so will get familiar with it. (Getting a pest control guy in for the yearly spray so it is a big job getting every cupboard cleaned – may be a 2 sermon job).
TNT – thanks for the link – I will read it before starting the day.
———————————————————————————November 19, 2017 at 8:59 pm #41814EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Paula is really doing well..considering the trauma she is going through. I am always amazed at the grace of God…even when people are unaware…so traumatized. If you understand. I see God at work in those….who seem to be totally undone….but God is still working!!
———————————————————————————–November 20, 2017 at 9:58 am #41822EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Mari, I listened to the message by Justin on the deity of Christ. I do not doubt the deity of Christ; however, he explained what the faith of Christ is not but at least to me, he did not explain what the faith of Christ is.I read the outline. There again, I get the deity of Christ, but the faith of Christ is still a problem for me.
=================================================================================November 20, 2017 at 10:16 am #41823EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Hold on there, Pammy! I got the answer. I emailed Pastor Justin Johnson.I’ll be back in a little bit…..
———————————————————————————–November 20, 2017 at 10:31 am #41824EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
(Regarding the faith of Christ)Here it is:
Whatever it is, it does not mean Jesus needed to have faith like we have faith in God. That teaching leads to very bad places.
The faith of Christ refers to the content or the specific message of faith. Faith in Christ is what we have when we hear the gospel of Christ and believe. The faith of Christ concerns the message of faith. You will find the phrase “the faith” scattered throughout the NT (Titus 1:13; 2 Tim 4:7; 1 Tim 3:9; 1 Tim 5:8; Eph 4:13, etc.). “Faith of Christ” is the same as “the faith” with the descriptor of which faith. “Faith in Christ” is you believing Christ. “Faith of Christ” is the message that is given to the church with the object of Christ.
Justin Johnson
================================================================================November 20, 2017 at 10:36 am #41825EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
I appreciate you getting in touch with Justin, TNT. But, huh? I will listen to the lesson you attached later. I hope he does a better job with this one. ? Let us know what you think.
=================================================================================November 20, 2017 at 10:42 am #41826EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
This what I wrote back to him. I am waiting for a reply.Dear Pastor Johnson
I think I got it now…..
The faith of Christ
The message of Christ
(Not the message of John Smith
or anyone else)
The whole message (of the Christian faith)
The Grace Gospel, Plus
Christ died for our sins, was buried,
and rose again….Plus, we are
justified, santified, made righteous, and
much, much more……
Does that sound right to you?
Your friend in Christ,
===================================================================================November 20, 2017 at 10:57 am #41827EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
I think I get what you are saying, but I’m still not convinced. It sounds like rationalizing to me. I’m not sure there is going to be an “ah ha” moment here, but I have an open mind. Paul says it a number of times. This will take time to study. Thanks!
==================================================================================November 20, 2017 at 11:01 am #41828EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
It’s looking to me like you were right from the very beginning
when you asked:(Pam says)
Hi Mari, Would you please explain further your statement, “When Paul uses the phrase “the faith of Christ” he is referring to the content of our faith today, which is the finished work of Christ on the cross for our sins and His resurrection for our justification and eternal life.”
=============================================================================November 20, 2017 at 11:07 am #41829EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Sorry….been out of the loop a few days…. My friend…a sister SWORDS…Paula MT has been going through a very bad time. I will update you all tomorrow. Today I need to lay down….Love you all.
Pam I think this can be a difficult subject …. it is my prayer all will see and understand. I will read all above and see if I see anything new to help. Hugs!
Thanks for all your efforts TNT….I love it!!
————————————————————————————-November 20, 2017 at 11:20 am #41830EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
TNT, now that statement is something I can sink my teeth into, so to speak. ? Can’t find it up above for some reason, but I just scanned quickly. As I am working, I will spend more time on this later.Thanks for your help, TNT. Thanks, Mari, for your patience and insights.
Prayers for Paula. Such a difficult situation. It’s coming to get us all if the Lord tarries!
=================================================================================November 20, 2017 at 11:26 am #41831EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Pam….in part what this is all about is that people are trying to say that Jesus Christ the man had to have faith in God just the same as we all have to have faith in God.They are separating out the fully man from the fully God…and diminishing the man Jesus, thereby His being fully God. Doing this is an attack on the person of Jesus Christ. Then they go on to say that Jesus the man did not know everything…in fact…one major grace group still believes that Jesus Christ seated at the right hand of the Father, glorified, the fullness of the Godhead, the Creator of the Universe in heaven right now …STILL does not know everything! That somehow the Father is keeping secrets from HIM…the FULLNESS of the Godhead! It is really pretty awful~~
So, while saying Jesus is the god/man…they make him less and attack his person and divinity in this way, misusing the meaning of the words “faith of Christ” as Jesus Christ needing to have faith just the same as any man. However, there is only one man who is fully God and man!
What do you think Jesus Christ needed faith for Himself?
———————————————————————————-November 20, 2017 at 11:31 am #41832EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
You are very welcome, Pam…..
We all want to know and we all give our thoughts
on the subject until we can figure it out and if
we can’t figure something out today, then
another day it will click with us, probably
when we are studying something else..lol
We trust God no matter what it means….
———————————————————————————-November 20, 2017 at 12:12 pm #41833EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Whoops, Pam… After rereading it looks like you were repeating Mari’s statement…
So, what Mari says seems correct….Hi Mari, Would you please explain further your statement, “When Paul uses the phrase “the faith of Christ” he is referring to the content of our faith today, which is the finished work of Christ on the cross for our sins and His resurrection for our justification and eternal life.”
My thoughts…I guess what Mari and Pastor Johnson are saying is
the faith of Christ is the content, the message, of all
our Christian beliefs….. The Christian Faith……??
==================================================================================November 20, 2017 at 1:30 pm #41834EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Sharleen Australia
Sharleen AustraliaParticipant
Good on you Pam for wanting to get to the bottom of this. It is so important to keep searching as for hidden treasure. There may be an ‘ah-ha’ moment after all. In a non-studied way, I see it as what TNT summed it up as in the above statement. But, to your credit, you are studying it out too.Rest up Mari – friends trials are exhausting physically and mentally.
This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Sharleen Australia Sharleen Australia.
November 21, 2017 at 9:15 am #41842EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLYTNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
I just received a reply from Pastor Justin Johnson that is short
and sweet:You got it!
Justin Johnson
?
————————————————————————————–November 21, 2017 at 11:29 am #41843EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Okay….I have to tell you that often with others this distresses me, but with our group…SWORDS it is a pleasure to dig deep! Others follow people! They follow pastors and persons…I was even threatened if I said anything about what Pastor Jordan believes or teaches on the subject! Not sure exactly what they would do…but it was quite ominous to me! Blew me away really…. These grace believers do not dig in and search for truth…they got a teaching and now they have a dog in the race and stick to the lines that were given to them.I will relate to all of you that a few years a go…that statement of the “faith of Christ” struck me too and I was going to do a Bible Study for us on this. I was pretty excited because I had never heard anyone preach on this and wondered…….but as I researched and read and studied, taking the whole of Paul’s epistles to see that it could not be pulled out as “faith of Christ”…but the concept…the before verses and after verses et al…together meant the full content of our faith today. NOT that our Saviour God had to have faith…HE is the object of our faith…HE is the WAY, the TRUTH, the LIFE…. and only THROUGH HIM can one come to the Father!
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I love that you dig Pam…and that TNT is digging too….and that we are all trying to come to the place of one mind in Christ! This is SWORDS in action! ?
Yes….Paula finally had to take her Viet Nam veteran husband, who has frontal lobe dementia and Alztimers (cannot remember how to spell that!) to a nursing home. It is about to kill her all the stress…and now she is horrified that she took him in…worried for him…oh on and on and on…alone now…oh goodness. So…did not want her to be alone…mixed in with her kids, grandkids and just tried to make the best of it for a few days….when she will decide if he is doing okay…or she will bring him back home until he has absolutely no memory left….goodness.
On my small part…as someone who empathizes not sympathizes…I take it all in as if it were my own. Do not know how to do it any differently…so I needed to completely shut down a day. Doing just fine now this morning….life goes on. I thank the Lord for His grace for us!!
Thanks Sharleen…yep….it is draining…but He fills us back up!! ?
Love to you all….
———————————————————————————–November 21, 2017 at 11:36 am #41844EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Threatened?! Geez Louise! Doesn’t sound like believing behavior to me.Thank for the details on Paula. I’ve been praying, and wondering about her. If it’s okay with Brooke, please keep us updated on her, too
———————————————————————————-November 21, 2017 at 12:01 pm #41846EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Yes….Brooke. I need to check in with her to see what is going on. Our Webmaster Richard Church is her husband… This is a godly family….and oh my goodness you should see the kids! Cute as can be!!Yes…threatened…and you are right…it is not believing behavior at all. I find this in several grace churches, and it is not good to have such loyalties to men…over God and His truth. Spooky to me actually….except we do live in a fallen world.
———————————————————————————–November 21, 2017 at 12:06 pm #41847EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Just want to include a little add on yet…..
From my old dictionary I have at home….
The definition of “of”
of – 1. from…derived or coming from
examples:
coming from Ohio
faith coming from ChristThat answers the question completely now
for me……Prayers for Paula
I understand how she feels as I took care of
my mother-in-law for a few years who had alzheimers…
I hope my husband doesn’t get it…
So, I feel just terrible for Paula…
——————————————————————————-November 21, 2017 at 12:22 pm #41848EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Hey, Sharleen! Sorry if we’ve talked about this before, but do you celebrate Thanksgiving the same day we do?
———————————————————————————–November 21, 2017 at 12:50 pm #41849EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
TNT….if you feel like it….i wish you would send what you wrote above about OF…on to Justin. Sheesh…such a simple thing to know!! Wow…GOOD thought to look up!!Trace….you do know that Thanksgiving is an American tradition and holiday…right? LOL But….I think they celebrate it too for something…. Sharleen?
————————————————————————————-November 21, 2017 at 12:54 pm #41850EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
You picking on me, Mari? ?
———————————————————————————–November 21, 2017 at 1:07 pm #41851EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Thanks for all the input everyone!I have been on a quest to know why I believe what I believe. I am convinced that right division is the only way to study the Bible so that is my starting point. When Mari brought up the faith of Christ, I thought that would be a good study. I really appreciate all of us digging in together and pulling it apart.
I like the definition “coming from”, TNT. Thanks!
Mari, I too will be studying the verses around these words.
Not quite sure why you would feel threatened questioning Pastor Jordan. He is the first one to always so, “Never believe anything because I told you so. Always search the scriptures for yourself.”
Thanks for the encouraging words, Sharleen.
My prayers are with Paula and Brooke. If I remember correctly, Brooke had a baby not too long ago. I am so sorry.
==================================================================================November 21, 2017 at 1:11 pm #41852EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Hi, Pam! Kudos on your new Bible study!!!! Maybe you could share the things that stand out to you, or that the Lord shows you – if it’s okay with Mari, of course ? I’ll be praying for you ?Sorry to put you on the spot, Mari, LOL
————————————————————————————-November 21, 2017 at 1:15 pm #41853EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Thanks Trace!How do you like being home this year? Better, I’ll bet. How are the kids doing?
November 21, 2017 at 1:23 pm #41854EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Thanks for asking, Sis! Actually, they’re both interconnected. I’m seeing the parents’ point of view. My kids are physically well, but they’re being Little…Terrors, LOL AJ’s getting in trouble for talking too much and not wanting to come in for recess. McKenna doesn’t like school this year. I hear that there is a maturing factor between Kindergarten & 1st grade, and I’m questioning McKenna’s maturity. She’s being totally defiant. I mean refusing to take tests…do assignments…She’s been sent home and suspended multiple times (including today).But the school doesn’t help matters. McKenna is more social than A.J. and has gotten in trouble. She serves her suspensions in classrooms of her peers! How dumb is that?! I’ve put in two requests for that not to happen and why. I’ve even offered for her to serve an out-of-school suspension and I’d make her do her work! Finally today they put her in a 5th grade classroom.
Sigh
————————————————————————–November 21, 2017 at 1:35 pm #41855EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Trace, yikes! Spunky little stinkers, aren’t they? You’ve certainly got your hands full. Someday you will look back on this and laugh. 30, 40 years maybe. ?
======================================================================November 21, 2017 at 1:37 pm #41856EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Pammie ? Gee, thanks, LOL Call me a bad parent, but there are those moments when I do laugh. McKenna’s had a “boyfriend” this year. When he broke her heart, she called him a rat, ROFL. I wouldn’t let the school discipline her for that
===================================================================================November 21, 2017 at 1:48 pm #41857EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
I can’t wait to stand on the sidelines while you enjoy them when they are teenagers!November 21, 2017 at 1:51 pm #41859EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
——————————————————————————————-November 21, 2017 at 1:51 pm #41860EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Trace: You picking on me, Mari? ?Me: ROFL!!! Never!!
Pam: Not quite sure why you would feel threatened questioning Pastor Jordan. He is the first one to always so, “Never believe anything because I told you so. Always search the scriptures for yourself.”
Me: No!!! Not threatened by pastor Jordan…but by a man that goes to his church. He believed anything PJ says is the truth, and if he said that Christ emptied himself of his glory…then that is the fact and I best not be saying anything different or against what he teaches…. Well..I hadn’t!!!!! But this guy recognized what was being taught by his pastor!
Pam: I have been on a quest to know why I believe what I believe. I am convinced that right division is the only way to study the Bible so that is my starting point.
Me: I so love you Pam…this is exactly my heart and thoughts too. AND…if anyone can show me from Scripture different than I believe…I will look and if it is the truth…will go there completely! I have no dog in the race whatsoever….
Trace:if it’s okay with Mari, of course ? I’ll be praying for you ? Sorry to put you on the spot, Mari, LOL
Me: This is exactly what we are all doing Trace! It seems we all have a heart for the truth and this has been a GREAT study! Hey…I am always on the spot…the one called “learning”! LOL
And oh my goodness with the kids….and the stupid people who suspend her while she is there in the room with her class?????????? Huh?
======================================================================================November 21, 2017 at 1:51 pm #41861EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
It gets funnier? LOL
——————————————————————————–November 21, 2017 at 1:57 pm #41862EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Mari: and the stupid people who suspend her while she is there in the room with her class?????????? Huh?Me: Close, Mari! They either put my kids in another class of the same grade or a grade lower. So, A.J. would be in a 1st grade class and McKenna in Kindergarten. They might as well stick A.J. in the same classroom with McKenna and call it punishment! It would accomplish the same thing.
As I said, I put a stop to that. It took me two tries, but I fought.
=================================================================================November 21, 2017 at 2:14 pm #41863EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
It is very hard to hear all this….what is becoming of our children’s education!Many of the parents here in Wisdom home school…and I can really see why…and the difference in their children is scary…they are more polite…getting better national scores…and have truly home values. Amazing….
———————————————————————————-November 21, 2017 at 2:20 pm #41864EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
You made me laugh Pam!And…Happy Thanksgiving too! MY most favorite day of the year…. ?
So…would anyone like to help me collate studies for books? I want smaller books in the sense of not more than 10 studies to a book or something like that….and want to find some of the studies that go together….or even one book for some of my massive to#7 of a study?
I would love all of your input and ideas.
I am thinking of having the name S.W.O.R.D.S as the name and the explanation below so that women who go to a Christian bookstore will see RD studies!
A lady in the Les Feldick FB page wanted to know if the Galatians study came from a book she could buy…. wow. Anyway…I would like there to be such a thing…and there is not…it may be up to us…. (I post SWORDS Bible studies on about 8 or 9 grace sites on FB…one is Les Feldick…and they have been completely supportive of them being posted there. At least so far….)
Anyone willing to pick a couple studies they really liked or think they might go together…or whatnot? LOL
————————————————————————————November 21, 2017 at 4:09 pm #41865EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Hi GirlsAre these the kind of books you are thinking of, Mari…..
Bible Q&A Booklets
==============================================================================November 21, 2017 at 6:48 pm #41867EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Sharleen Australia
Sharleen AustraliaParticipant
Hi allYou certainly chat a lot when you started! ?
Trace no thanksgiving here – it is a day like any other. If I remember it, because I happen to be on this site, then for the fun of it I may cook a favourite meal for the kids. That is because apparently, my ancestors were on the Mayflower. But usually, I forget – like this year.
Trace, your children do sound like hard work for you. However, from what I have heard about their school over the years I can assume there are major failings there. It is a shame there isn’t another option for you. We have been very fortunate with schools in our family, they seem very different to American schools.
Mari study books would be great. Maybe you could give a topic of the study such as ‘Grace alone” and we could help find studies in the archives that would match that? Is that what you were meaning?
=================================================================================November 21, 2017 at 7:38 pm #41870EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Amen to all Sharleen!Yes…only you may pick the subject and help me search. LOL
————————————————————————————-November 21, 2017 at 7:45 pm #41871EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Kind of….but actual books…not pamphlets. Goodness…I have written prolifically! I think they would go into thinner spined, but actual books. I am actually not sure yet TNT…..
===============================================================================November 22, 2017 at 12:41 pm #41875EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Mari, not quite sure I understand what you want to do.Interesting that you see people following people blindly. 1 Cor 1:12 “… that everyone of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.” Even back then Paul was addressing this.
==============================================================================November 23, 2017 at 12:25 am #41878EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
I want to get studies together that go together…like basic studies…then like fruit of the Spirit and what goes with that. I had to go to town today…and today was my birthday…so did not get anything done. Hope to tomorrow!!Yes…it is hard to see people blindly following someone they think highly of…but not studying out what has come up. It makes me sad, especially in grace circles…where a very strong verse for our belief is 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
We all need to pray for our brethren…that they are strengthened in their inner man….Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
I pray this for all of us…and for myself as well.
————————————————————————————November 23, 2017 at 7:03 am #41881EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Happy birthday, Mari! Hope you had a wonderful day. Happy Thanksgiving!
————————————————————————————–November 23, 2017 at 7:14 am #41882EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Happy birthday, Mari!!!!!and Happy Thanksgiving, Sisses!!!!!!!
————————————————————————————November 23, 2017 at 8:34 am #41884EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Happy Birthday, Mari
and
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!November 23, 2017 at 6:35 pm #41888EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Both were great! Hope your Thanksgiving was wonderful!!
======================================================================================November 23, 2017 at 8:44 pm #41889EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Sharleen Australia
Sharleen AustraliaParticipant
I have to keep reminding myself to STUDY IT OUT FOR MYSELF. Not just think oh that makes a lot of sense! Or I totally trust that person to have studied it out well. We are all accountable. But some lazier than others! (I’m too lazy sometimes, but also sometimes when I try I get myself in a right muddle). That is probably due to lack of practice!!Happy Birthday Mari
————————————————————————————–November 23, 2017 at 9:51 pm #41891EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Me too Sharleen….it is the struggle of my life to constantly feel overwhelmed with things I need to do, address, get done…prepare for et al…. I am pretty sure most of us feel like this. Gee..and housework is never done…LOL
========================================================================================November 28, 2017 at 9:08 am #41917EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
The faith of Christ refers to the content or the specific message of faith. Faith in Christ is what we have when we hear the gospel of Christ and believe. The faith of Christ concerns the message of faith. You will find the phrase “the faith” scattered throughout the NT (Titus 1:13; 2 Tim 4:7; 1 Tim 3:9; 1 Tim 5:8; Eph 4:13, etc.). “Faith of Christ” is the same as “the faith” with the descriptor of which faith. “Faith in Christ” is you believing Christ. “Faith of Christ” is the message that is given to the church with the object of Christ.Justin Johnson
Me: As hard as I have tried, this just does not make sense to me in the context of “the faith of Christ”. Psalms 16:1 tells us that Jesus put His trust in God. Jesus was obedient to God. Romans 5:19 “…the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” Philippians 2:8 “…became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
Jesus did what God told him to do because he trusted God to do what He said He would do. Isaiah 50:5-9 “The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the miters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me. Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.”
In the entire chapter of Psalm 16, Jesus tells us what he has faith in. He has put his trust in God. 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”
I could go on and on. I believe the faith of Jesus Christ means just that.
=====================================================================================November 28, 2017 at 9:42 am #41918EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Good point, Pammy…..
Now, where was that I saw the meaning to be
Christ’s faith in God’s plan……
I have to let this ping pong back and forth
in my empty head for a while and do some
jobs around the house….Thanks Pam…..
———————————————————————————–November 28, 2017 at 9:51 am #41919EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
When you catch it, hold on tight!:)
————————————————————————————November 28, 2017 at 9:59 am #41920EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Well so far, to me, it looks like you are right…. ?I have the same stubborn feeling,as you do,
on a different
Bible subject that, maybe, I’ll bring up
in January or February when I have time to
work on it…..
———————————————————————————November 28, 2017 at 10:18 am #41921EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
I am looking forward to it.
———————————————————————————-December 17, 2017 at 8:08 pm #42079EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Sharleen Australia
Sharleen AustraliaParticipant
Just off for a month holiday to visit family in New Zealand. Plan to do some adventurous stuff also such as black water rafting (in caves) and a day hike over an active volcano and mountain bike riding, water skiing… Should be fun. Will take the laptop but if you don’t hear from me for awhile you know why.Have a lovely time with your families, if you catch up with them at this time of year. Christmas and New Year is the typical time we catch with everyone in NZ and Australia (not having thanksgiving). Plus it is summer.
Love and prayers my sisters in Christ.
—————————————————————————-December 17, 2017 at 8:32 pm #42080EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Sharleen! I will keep you in extra prayer doing such totally adventurous stuff! Please let us know as you go if you can! Pictures on FB!! Love you!!
——————————————————————————-December 17, 2017 at 8:49 pm #42081EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Just wanted to add this for everyone to take a look…as the same people who are promoting we are saved by the faith of Christ, as if Christ needed to have the same saving faith as any sinful man needed…are also promoting that WE the body of Christ are GOD. I tell you….pray for one another.Here is a link with several articles to read…that may help in the “faith of Christ” issue…
http://graceambassadors.com/search?q=faith+of+Christ&x=45&y=8
This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by Mari – Administrator Mari – Administrator.
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December 18, 2017 at 7:37 am #42086EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Oh my goodness, Sharleen! It sounds wonderful and terrifying at the same time. Have a wonderful month with your family in New Zealand. Keep in touch if you can. Can’t wait to hear all about it. Ah, summer. Only in our dreams.:)
===================================================================================December 18, 2017 at 7:53 am #42087EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
Thank you for the articles, Mari. I hope to get to read them soon.
——————————————————————————December 18, 2017 at 3:43 pm #42088EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Sounds wonderful, Sharleen! Have fun, and Merry Christmas!!!! Merry Christmas, Everyone ?
——————————————————————————–December 29, 2017 at 9:40 am #42176EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
I am wondering if we can move the subject of faith in Christ to its own location. I would hate for our discussion to get lost in Chat.I am in no way diminishing the deity of Christ. Remember, while Christ was fully God, he was also fully man. Perhaps this is where the faith and trust of Christ in God comes in. I am a bit disappointed that you did not address my comments, Mari.
1 Timothy 3:16 is a different subject. Perhaps we can start a new location for this one as well. I will say this though, what is a right dividers mantra? Context, context, context. Timothy is a pastoral epistle. In chapter three, Paul is discussing the local church not the deity of Christ per se. The deity of Christ, Jesus being manifested in the flesh were not mysteries. The mystery is godliness. I am reluctant to go on as I am not sure of the connection you are trying to make.
I think these two subjects would make for great discussions.
—————————————————————————————December 29, 2017 at 11:57 am #42178EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
Absolutely!! I will try to do this later this afternoon…have to finish snow plowing and then company for an hour or two!! Good idea Pam!!
———————————————————————————–December 29, 2017 at 12:21 pm #42180EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam
PamParticipant
That would be great! Please don’t overdo. No hurry.
————————————————————————————December 31, 2017 at 4:38 pm #42211EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator
Mari – AdministratorKeymaster
OH shucks Pam…I just reread your post above…I am sorry I did not address any question you posed. Which ones did I miss….Truly…I apologize! Maybe post them on the new subject. I will make one the FAith of Christ and one …what should the other one say?
———————————————————————————January 1, 2018 at 3:23 pm #42227EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator
Moderator
Happy New Year, Grace Girls!!
——————————————————————————-January 1, 2018 at 3:30 pm #42228EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN
Trace INParticipant
Happy New Year!!!! ?November 14, 2017 at 10:12 pm #41737EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator says
Keymaster
Hi Pam…when we take all of Paul’s epistles together we see the totality of our faith is in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 15:1-4We are saved by the blood of Christ. We are not saved by the faith of Christ…as Christ being fully God and fully man, did not need to have faith!
We believe by faith. Reading Galatian 3 to 5 is a great explanation too!
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Were you taught kenosis?
I was as a Catholic…know well the teaching that God in order to take on humanity…had to empty Himself of His deity, glory, attributes!
God did not empty Himself…He simply added to Himself flesh becoming fully God and fully man.
What kenosis says is that Jesus Christ, our Creator, the Second Person of the Trinity…did not know what was going on while He was here on earth…and that even NOW…seated at the right hand of the Father, He does not know all things! It is a means to diminish the deity of Christ.
We are saved because we heard the word of God and chose to believe the word of truth. The word of truth is that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again from the dead… that we who believe will be saved eternally.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
What do you believe Pam?
I agree Sharleen…GREAT discussion.
Sorry I am late…was in town all day…got home around 6, put groceries et al away…made some dinner and then found time to check my email!! Love you all!
—————————————————————————-November 15, 2017 at 6:40 am #41744EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam says
Participant
Good morning Mari, I agree with you wholeheartedly on our salvation. I just think it is an interesting subject; faith of God (Romans 3:3), love of Christ (Romans 8:35), love of God (Romans 8:39), obedience of one (Romans 5:19), righteousness of God, faith of Jesus Christ (Romans 2:22), etc.Couldn’t the argument be made that the faithfulness of Christ to God the Father and Jesus’ obedience to God put Him on the cross to be a propitiation for us. It is our belief that this act; Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection that saves us.
After all, Hebrews 5:7-8 tells us just how hard it was for Jesus to do this.
———————————————————————————–November 15, 2017 at 10:33 am #41747EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPL
Mari – Administrator says
Keymaster
Good morning Pam! I live in a frozen world this morning! BRRRRR
Sorry if I confused things…I was pretty tired last night… Here is what I believe and it is said perfectly…so I copied it from GA site. See what you think….
“The phrase “faith of Christ” does not describe the faith that Christ had in God. The meaning of the phrase is found in Phi 3:9.
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.
The faith of Christ is what God made available for justification: righteousness by faith (Romans 3:22).
The faith of Christ is different than having faith in Christ.
Faith in Christ describes a person who hears the gospel and believes it. They have faith in Christ unto salvation.
It finds meaning in verses like Eph 1:13:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
After they heard about the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith, they put their faith in Christ.
The faith of Christ and having faith in Christ are different. Passages like Romans 3:22 and Galatians 2:16 make this clear, but neither phrase describes Christ putting faith in the truth like we must. He was the truth.
I put my faith in the Lord who does not need faith in the truth or in God, because he was both.
Christ did not need faith. Men do.
Justin said it so much better than me! LOL
——————————————————————————–November 15, 2017 at 12:39 pm #41749EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator says
Keymaster
I posted above too…but researching this more…I found this. It is an outline for a sermon…but the outline is really good.I looked up and compared the verses given….and have a much better understanding. Maybe this will help too…. ? I am still working on this….but also trying to write my next Bible study…on the Bible!
——————————————————————————November 15, 2017 at 2:02 pm #41751EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Pam says
Participant
Did you post the outline?I understand the difference between in and of. ? I looked up the word kenosis, that is heresy for sure. In reading Romans 5:19, “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” By reading these verses what I take away is that because of the faith of Christ and His obedience to God, we are made righteous. No?
No hurry at all. Stay warm and rested. We’re not going anywhere.
———————————————————————————November 15, 2017 at 2:48 pm #41752EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Mari – Administrator says
Keymaster
Well shucks…I walked off and forgot! I have been studying this all morning! One guy has emailed me to tell me that God cannot be in the presence of sin!! Wow…I asked him to give me Scripture please…showing this.OH…thank goodness you see the heresy of Kenosis….as an ex-catholic…it was a hard one for me!!
Here is the outline I have been studying…https://www.facebook.com/notes/mari-edgekoski-hammond/09-philippians-26-8-christ-jesus-humbled-himself/2133872316840052/
Also…one thing is leading to another Pam…and then came to the place…When Jesus died on the cross for our sins…did God die too? He could not…but then if you believe that…you are separating fully God…fully man. This was a brain teaser…. Anyone up for trying the answer?!
—————————————————————————————–November 15, 2017 at 3:01 pm #41753EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Trace IN says
Participant
Above my pay grade, LOL
——————————————————————————November 15, 2017 at 7:04 pm #41757EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
Sharleen Australia says
Participant
Mine too – not in my job description ? Just here for the ride.]
——————————————————————————-November 15, 2017 at 7:43 pm #41760EDIT | MOVE | SPLIT | TRASH | SPAM | REPLY
TNT – Senior Moderator says
Moderator
I’m getting the popcorn……copy
Pam says
Participant
Hi Mari, Would you please explain further your statement, “When Paul uses the phrase “the faith of Christ” he is referring to the content of our faith today, which is the finished work of Christ on the cross for our sins and His resurrection for our justification and eternal life.”copy
Mari – Administrator says
I think like so many others…new people take time to come in…or simply have the emailed study…. ?
It was a difficult task for me this morning. We have a fellow SWORD whom you met here briefly Marianne CA, and I put up her book, but quickly took it back down until I had read it fully, which is a very good thing.
I want you all to be aware of what I posted to her FB page this morning, because she has tagged me in her posts several times as if I approve her book. I cannot…and it is sad to me, because I gave her information and she said she was rewriting the article….but in the end the heresy is still blatant. So…just FYI here is what was posted.
Marianne, I love you dearly and would love to promote your book, but you teach a dangerous heresy in the last chapter, The Faith of Jesus, that I simply cannot support.
The Bible is clear: Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Heb 11:1). By God’s definition of faith, the all-knowing, all-powerful God of the Bible — the Lord Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh — doesn’t need to have it!
Faith is always what God requires of fallen humanity throughout the Bible, but right division teaches us that the content of that faith changes with God’s progressive revelation.
When Paul uses the phrase “the faith of Christ” he is referring to the content of our faith today, which is the finished work of Christ on the cross for our sins and His resurrection for our justification and eternal life.
Not “the faith that Christ had toward God.”
God’s perfectly preserved words can remain intact without attacking the deity of Christ.
Please do not tag me in posts which promote the book, God’s Secret.
Please pray for Marianne…and I would not mind prayer either!
